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Petition to reissue Cafe Corner

2456

Comments

  • @prof1515, I do love reading your comments. Always full of good old common sense, yet written in an entertaining way.
  • Don't forget filled with cynicism and a dose of curmudgeonly ill-humor. :-D
  • Yep like those too :-)
    [Curmudgeonly is a great word, got to use that more often]
  • @prof1515 - right on, exactly.

    those without a Cafe Corner (or anything else) have 3 choices:
    1) pay the prevaling rates for complete sets (new or used)
    2) part our your own, which can be done quite reasonably
    3) accept that you won't own it. This shouldn't detract from your desire or love of the other modulars - far too often we as collectors get caught up in the "I have to have ALL of a collection, or NONE". Why? There isn't really much rationality to it at all.
  • ^ More excellent sense. I really don't understand the gotta catch 'em all mentality.
  • Oh god. The Pokemon generation have become AFOLs.
  • Sets should not be reissued. .... Plus, the Cafe Corner I have would be worth zilch if Lego did that...LOL


    Isn't that the real problem, though. True collectors would not want to sell their set, so it doesn't impact on them. Whereas people that bought for investment would not be able to sell it for RRP, let alone a multiple. People that bought it, made it, enjoyed it for a while, would still be able to sell it - but like anything else the second hand model would not be worth as much as when purchased if the model is still being sold. They could still get some money back to reinvest in more Lego.

    It's a bit like the real housing market. Some people complain of new developments in their area, since the value of their property will go down since demand is less.
    Sure, there's a lot of truth to it from an investor's point of view. I can see both sides of the story, but why reissue old sets when there are thousands of new ideas and themes that can be done in Lego bricks? Lego is very smart. They realize this and won't change their philosophy on reissuing older sets. Why? Because it devalues their older sets on the secondary market, thus reducing interest from the investors and collectors when the sets are still selling on the primary market.

    Lego does not need to remake older sets. They are doing very well financially with their new themes, like Ninjago for instance. In the US market alone, their sales have improved for 7 years straight. The company's share of the total U.S. toy market has tripled in five years, all without reissuing older sets. I think discontinuing sets yearly, works for Lego and the Lego fan.
  • edited March 2012
    I think you can compare the Modular Buildings a bit with the annual "year items" made by Swarovski Cristal. You can buy them for a short time and they are limited. I think the same goes for these Modulars, of course Lego could re-release them like they did with some sets in the past but it would deprave the sets of their value.

    I agree with dougts, if you really want it just get the parts or pay a huge amount of money. And simply be smart and buy the new sets when available. We can't have it all.

    A bit the same like this goes for me. I'm still collecting parts for a set which is not available anymore, the Weetabix Castle. There are 2 for sale on Bricklink, but I settle for a copy with not all original parts instead of paying some €200,00 for it.
  • edited March 2012
    ^^ This

    A lot of people forget that TLG is a volume business, even the special sets like modulars need to sell in the hundreds of thousands of units to make any kind of sense.

    Why retire a set that is doing well? Because at some point, you can come out with something new that will sell three times faster using the same company resources.

    Ninjago is a great example. Every ounce of production space that the pro-reissue crowd wants to use to kick out some more Cafe Corner sets is better used making more Ninjago sets. The spinners sell out very quickly at my local Lego store, they keep restocking and selling out again.

    They make sets like Town Hall to keep the adults interested and to further their fan base, but I highly suspect most of the profits are in the $25 to $50 sets.
  • This would not be fair to current Cafe Corner owners. There is always going to be a set that you just can't have. Isn't collecting a part of LEGO?
  • Lego does remake sets so anything is possible. Look at all the SW reissues.
  • The thing is that the Modulars aren't available for a short time nor are they limited. They aren't just producing 500 of them like the SDCC or similar event-specific sets. They're also not for sale for any less time than other sets. Heck, they're often around longer than the main product lines. I got my Fire Brigade long before the Pharaoh's Quest sets came out and the Pharaoh's mummified now but the Brigade's still putting out flames. Same goes for several other themes that have come and gone, been replaced and had their replacements vanish as well all while the same modulars have been for sale.

    Cafe Corner was around for quite a while. I bought my copies in 2008, deciding not to wait any longer. If I had and I'd missed out, I'd have had only myself to blame (I didn't wait similarly long times for any of the other Modulars). Same goes for anyone else. I missed out on one of the Adventurers sets back in 1999 and ended up paying more than MSRP for it years later but that was the cost of not acting sooner when it was on the shelves (though the reason I didn't get it was because it never was on the shelves locally and I wasn't aware that Lego had such an excellent online sales selection until 2000; I grew up with Shop-at-Home being a few exclusives and service packs purchased by mail order and advertised on the back of packaged catalogs).
  • This would not be fair to current Cafe Corner owners. There is always going to be a set that you just can't have. Isn't collecting a part of LEGO?
    Unfair how? Because the new stock will change how much you enjoy your current Cafe Corner?

    Not all of us got into Lego when the modular sets began their life. I don't want a direct reissue but definitely something similar to the Cafe Corner (like how they're always releasing improved SW sets).

  • I'm saying it would affect the value/rarity of current Cafe Corner owners.
  • edited March 2012
    They also turn out an average of well over a dozen Star Wars sets every year. By contrast, they turn out one Modular a year and the total number of modulars thus far produced isn't even half what the Star Wars line has per year. The first "improved" rerelease Star Wars set came out in 2002 after the line had produced 42 other sets prior to that year's 25, nearly all of which were NOT rereleases. In other words, when the Modular line has cranked out 40 models then I can see comparing it to the Star Wars line.
  • Would be great if they re-issue it but it's not necessary to have a petition if you're really into having this in your collection. Just part it out on Bricklink. Download the instructions and do a part each month and before you know it you'll have it well before any petition can sway Lego into re-releasing it.
    The only way I see them doing this is if they put in a detailed interior...Cafe 2.0....;)
  • edited March 2012
    They also turn out an average of well over a dozen Star Wars sets every year. By contrast, they turn out one Modular a year and the total number of modulars thus far produced isn't even half what the Star Wars line has per year. The first "improved" rerelease Star Wars set came out in 2002 after the line had produced 42 other sets prior to that year's 25, nearly all of which were NOT rereleases. In other words, when the Modular line has cranked out 40 models then I can see comparing it to the Star Wars line.
    Doesn't really matter. If Lego can be swayed to produce profitable sets, that's all that matters. All the more power for the petition to increase awareness of demand.

  • edited March 2012
    I doubt Lego is going to be swayed by a petition by a small group of people that they could just as easily get the money off of by offering some other set.

    Really, folks, it's not hard to get a Cafe Corner. Just buy one off Bricklink, eBay or Amazon. They aren't really selling for that high used.

    But hell, if you have to have a new in sealed box, I've got a near-mint sealed boxed one that I'm selling for $1000 which is cheaper than you'll find it for anywhere else in similar condition.

    See? Not that "rare".
  • ^sales threads in other forum please.
  • edited March 2012
    Lego does remake sets so anything is possible. Look at all the SW reissues.
    The Star Wars reissues are usually similar in name only. Most 'remakes' are either a lesser quality replica or a much improved replica, but they are not exact duplicates like a Cafe Corner would probably be. Take for instance the Star Destroyer 10030 vs. Star Destroyer 6211. The later came out years after and was inferior to the original. It can also be the opposite. Look at the Imperial Shuttle 4494 vs. Imperial Shuttle 10212. The later is a much improved version. The Turbo Tank is one of the few Star Wars sets that the remake and original are somewhat similar in appearance.

  • edited March 2012
    ^^ self-appointed mini-Mods on another forum please.
  • Would be great if they re-issue it but it's not necessary to have a petition if you're really into having this in your collection. Just part it out on Bricklink. Download the instructions and do a part each month and before you know it you'll have it well before any petition can sway Lego into re-releasing it.
    The only way I see them doing this is if they put in a detailed interior...Cafe 2.0....;)
    Like the Johnny Cash song where he brings home one piece of a car every day he worked at an assembly line! Seriously though...people need to quit whining about re-issuing old sets...that's part of the hobby unfortunately. Just because it is now expensive on the secondary market is not a good enough reason to release a set. So is Taj Mahal, UCS Falcon, Grand Carousel, Green Grocer, Statue of Liberty...
  • I would still like to see a " lesser" set attempted.
  • edited March 2012
    I would still like to see a " lesser" set attempted.
    How about something new, but similar in appearance? A diner? A pharmacy? A bank? How about "Cornerstone Bank"?
  • I agree, another corner set similar in style to Cafe Corner, but different and more detailed would be awesome!
  • Police station
    Library
    Post Office
    Corner Pharmacy
    Bank
    Book Store
    Furniture Store
    Fast Food Restaurant
    Fine Restaurant
    Theatre
    Movie Theatre
    Hospital
    Hotel (an actual hotel, not a sign)
    Butcher
    Baker
    Candlestick Maker

    The potential is immense. Why rerelease a non-descript coffee shop when there's so much else that could be done?
    Furrysaurus
  • Those are all great ideas prof1515. Especially like the Candlestick Maker...made me laugh.
    Seriously though, it would be great to have a real restaurant, with a kitchen and everything.
  • I would like to see Lego issue more than one modular a year. Maybe one every 6 months? I think it can be done.
  • edited March 2012
    Police station
    ... ... ...
    Candlestick Maker

    The potential is immense. Why rerelease a non-descript coffee shop when there's so much else that could be done?
    XXX Video Store.......Sorry, had to do it. ;-)

  • What? You thought they were really selling candlesticks?
    Furrysaurus
  • ^^ self-appointed mini-Mods on another forum please.
    lol

    Trust me, when I came out of my dark ages I was disappointed at all the cool sets I had missed. I missed all the early modulars and a bunch of the cool UCS sets. I had brief sentiments of "Lego how could you, I was only gone for a few years" and I became upset. The only person I can blame is myself for not paying attention. TLG can't be blamed for not marketing enough. They can't be blamed for anything, they're just doing smart business and it appears to be paying off with all the collectors/resellers coming into the market. Anyone else that didn't get CC, I'm sorry, but you weren't paying attention and not getting the CC may be the price you pay for this. As I've said before, if you must have it, bricklink the pieces together because that is the cheapest method you will get it now.

  • 3) accept that you won't own it. This shouldn't detract from your desire or love of the other modulars - far too often we as collectors get caught up in the "I have to have ALL of a collection, or NONE". Why? There isn't really much rationality to it at all.
    Here's the problem: The Cafe Corner is still the best looking modular. It's the only modular that I could see being displayed in my living room. Town Hall? No way would I want something so ugly and un-inspiring. Grand Emporium? Nice looking but it's just a fancy store front. Fire Brigade? Second best looking modular but it's a fire station and just doesn't do it for me. Green Grocer? Really nice looking but it lacks a "story". Pet Store? ZZzzzz. Cafe Corner was inspired. It looks like it could belong in either Paris or San Francisco. It has panache. It has subtext.

    I would save up and buy a re-released Cafe Corner. They could spruce up the interior and ask $200 for it. You guys harping about the need to move on should just be quiet and let the guy do a petition. I've noticed that Lego Addicts are a lot like Apple Addicts...annoying with their fanaticism of purity.

  • edited March 2012
    You guys harping about the need to move on should just be quiet ...
    Everyone is entitled to their opinion here, as long as they keep it civil. Telling others they need to 'be quiet' is leaning toward non-civil behaviour. Just sayin'.
  • What? You thought they were really selling candlesticks?
    LOL...Now if the store is in Amsterdam.........HMMMM....I think I am getting off topic here. ;-)
  • edited March 2012
    Every ounce of production space that the pro-reissue crowd wants to use to kick out some more Cafe Corner sets is better used making more Ninjago sets. The spinners sell out very quickly at my local Lego store, they keep restocking and selling out again.
    Seriously, I couldn't give a crap about Ninjago. I'm surprised an AFOL is actually defending a hokey kid's theme like Ninjago over a classic modular set such as Cafe Corner. But again, you're a reseller so I can see how you would want to protect your assets. I can tell you for a fact that if Lego re-released Cafe Corner it would sell 3x as many units as the current flock of ho-hum modulars (cough ahem *Town Hall*). That's just my opinion though ; )

  • ^ An AFOL who can see the bigger picture. Ninjago needs to sell well to kids in order to subsidize the more niche adult market. And let's not forget who Lego is really for - if kids want ninjas, give them ninjas.
    I don't think LFT's point has anything to do with reselling.
  • edited March 2012
    I get it. I'm not dense. Lego has to make money. I'm not saying that they shouldn't do Ninjago. I'm glad that it's profitable for them. But that doesn't mean that I have to like it. My main point is that Cafe Corner was a great set, better than the current modulars. They could spruce up the interior and it would sell well. Collectors would buy them up even if they already owned the previous model. The only people who would be hurt are the resellers and I don't care about them.
  • Every ounce of production space that the pro-reissue crowd wants to use to kick out some more Cafe Corner sets is better used making more Ninjago sets. The spinners sell out very quickly at my local Lego store, they keep restocking and selling out again.


    Seriously, I couldn't give a crap about Ninjago. I'm surprised an AFOL is actually defending a hokey kid's theme like Ninjago over a classic modular set such as Cafe Corner. But again, you're a reseller so I can see how you would want to protect your assets. I can tell you for a fact that if Lego re-released Cafe Corner it would sell 3x as many units as the current flock of ho-hum modulars (cough ahem *Town Hall*). That's just my opinion though ; )

    Why can't AFOLs enjoy all the themes? Ninjago is no joke and is a driving force in Lego profit increases. I like the sets. I also like the Modulars and Atlantis and Space Police and Sculptures and POTC and Star Wars and so on and so forth...It's all about the money and the Ninjago theme makes a heck of a lot more than Modulars do for Lego.

  • I get it. I'm not dense. Lego has to make money. I'm not saying that they shouldn't do Ninjago. I'm glad that it's profitable for them. But that doesn't mean that I have to like it. My main point is that Cafe Corner was a great set, better than the current modulars. They could spruce up the interior and it would sell well. Collectors would buy them up even if they already owned the previous model. The only people who would be hurt are the resellers and I don't care about them.
    Nobody is arguing about the quality of Cafe Corner, just that we would like to see other ideas developed into sets. Variety is the spice of life.

  • Every ounce of production space that the pro-reissue crowd wants to use to kick out some more Cafe Corner sets is better used making more Ninjago sets. The spinners sell out very quickly at my local Lego store, they keep restocking and selling out again.


    Seriously, I couldn't give a crap about Ninjago. I'm surprised an AFOL is actually defending a hokey kid's theme like Ninjago over a classic modular set such as Cafe Corner. But again, you're a reseller so I can see how you would want to protect your assets. I can tell you for a fact that if Lego re-released Cafe Corner it would sell 3x as many units as the current flock of ho-hum modulars (cough ahem *Town Hall*). That's just my opinion though ; )

    Mathew, I don't think he was necessarily defending the theme as in it's good for AFOL's...but good for Lego. AFOL's make up like 5% or less of Lego's market...if you don't believe me, go to the Lego Store on a Saturday. I've never felt more out of place. And I don't think a re-issued Cafe Corner would sell as well as you think it would. Alot of AFOL's already have it and wouldn't buy a re-issued one unless they seriously improved it somehow.
  • edited March 2012
    To be honest, I'm getting tired of remakes. I mean how many versions of X-Wings and Tie Fighters do we need? There has to be other Star Wars vehicles to remake. It's as if Lego is getting lazy...LOL
  • ^Yes, kids fill the store on the weekends and Ninjago is mainly what they buy. When LFT said lego should use all available space to produce Ninjago he was right on. That would be smart business and anything else, like using the space for a reissued Cafe Corner, would be foolish. @mathew How can you tell me for FACT CC will sell 3x as many copies as TH if it is your opinion? That's contradictory. TH will sell at least 3x as many copies as a reissued CC would and I can say that confidently.
  • For the record, the cost of producing a re-released set is dependent on what else is being manufactured at the same time. If LEGO isn't producing the 1x8x2 Dark Blue arch, or the Black 1x4 Door, or the Dark Red 1x1 headlights, (or whatever-else), then they have to set up molding runs of those particular parts that aren't currently in production.

    The fact that parts are commonly re-used in OTHER sets is part of why LEGO's recovered from its financial problems in the early 2000's-- it's WAY more efficient. So the more parts are currently in production, the cheaper it'll be. And the more parts that AREN'T in production, the more expensive it'll be.

    There's also another problem, which is the SKU. LEGO is literally limited to the number of SKUs that they can produce in a given year. I'm not sure where they purchase the ranges that they have (probably some sort of central board of retailers that mandate them), but that means-- quite literally-- that for every re-release that gets made, that's one less product that they can have for the given year.

    And, again, as has been stated, LEGO has learned from its "Legends" series that re-releases don't do all that well. So if they have to sacrifice a new and different set in order to sell an old one? That's just not good business. We almost don't even have to debate that point-- LEGO's already pretty much proven it. Granted, the adult market is different today than it was when LEGO stopped doing Legends back in 2004-- but I don't think it's SO different that doing re-releases would be terribly profitable.

    For the record, Star Wars "redesigns" are different. They're not targeted at AFOL collectors, they're targeted at kids. LEGO wants to make sure that there will ~pretty much~ ALWAYS be a LEGO X-Wing for sale, as long as they have the Star Wars license. They want kids to be able to walk into the store, and see the iconic X-wing on the shelf. So why do they redesign it instead of just keeping the same design? Go back and re-read the 2nd paragraph above. It's actually CHEAPER to redesign the set rather than keep making the same old parts that they always made.

    As for the appeal of Cafe Corner-- it gets special treatment because:
    1) It was the first one ("first" is always a landmark to collectors)
    2) It's the oldest (the older they are, the more expensive!)
    3) It's a corner

    It's also still a great exterior design (one of the only ones that works really well when adding "extra" middle layers). You can debate the aesthetics all day regarding the build complexity, the detail level, etc, but the fact is that it doesn't "stand out" as being remarkably different style-wise or "sub-par" when lined up against the other modular buildings.

    And, just in case this post (and this thread) weren't already long enough-- Cafe Corner has an amusing background story that most of the other modular buildings don't have.

    In 2006, Jamie Berard got hired by LEGO. And after impressing everyone with some of his other designs, he took the idea of "modular town buildings" to the LEGO design board. He suggested the idea of detailed buildings with interiors that could be re-configured to make a city block, with various shops, apartments, and so forth.

    "Oh, you mean a dollhouse? No, we've test marketed those. They don't work."
    "No, it's not a dollhouse. It's like a city building that--"
    "Nope, sorry."

    But he built a scratch model just the same, to show them how what he was talking about really was NOT a dollhouse, and actually might have some market appeal. And only after seeing what he built did they agree that it COULD be worth making. They didn't really expect much, though.

    And when it hit the market, nothing had prepared LEGO for the reaction, especially from AFOLs, who heralded the set as the dawning of a new age! And it sold well enough that LEGO essentially couldn't help but consider it a brand new series of sets that they'd continue forever after.

    Essentially, it was one of the first genuinely successful sets to be designed by an AFOL, to be marketed FOR AFOLs. Sure, there was the 3739 Blacksmith Shop, or the 10022 Santa Fe cars, or even the Factory lineup from 2005. But none of them really met with the same level of success that Cafe Corner had. Cafe Corner filled a niche that advanced LEGO builders had been looking for for a LONG time, and was versatile enough to support its own complete lineup, making for a great collectible product as well (which has added value, as seen by the price of the set today!)

    DaveE
  • edited March 2012
    ^^^ yes, getting, if not already, off-topic. In fact, if I had caught this thread earlier, I would have merged a good portion of the "should TLG re-release sets" discussion in with this thread: http://www.bricksetforum.com/discussion/1160/how-would-you-feel-about-re-releases

    At this point, this thread is just as large as that one, so the value is diminished, but there is a lot of repetition.

    TLG is a business, and although they have certain principles governing how they go about conducting business that add shades of gray (i.e. no war machines), if one viewed most of their actions and inactions with the understanding that it is done to maximize profit, one wouldn't be too far off-base.

    While everyone is certainly within their right to start an effort for a re-release, I think the best way to approach it is by providing TLG with concrete numbers. A petition probably could provide that, but not as drafted, since - as others have already pointed out - it reads simply as an emotional appeal and speaks more generally about LEGO than the actual model. I suspect what TLG would be interested in hearing is a commitment of quantities purchased, so they can evaluate the business case as accurately as possible. Is this starting to sound like something? http://lego.cuusoo.com/

    But the arguments against re-releases are quite factual.

    TLG has a finite number of product slots and producing one set means that it comes at the cost of another.

    A re-release, by nature, limits the buyer pool. That is not to say that the TLG wouldn't profit from the subsequent sales, but the pool of prospective buyers is going to be less for the re-release simply by virtue of a subset of original owners not double-dipping.

    In the past, there have been very vocal groans of disapproval when TLG re-releases a set too soon. I imagine there were poor sales to match. For example, look at the disparity in ownership numbers for the 1999 release of 7150, and the 2002 re-release - 2186 vs 577:
    http://www.brickset.com/detail/?Set=7150-1
    http://www.brickset.com/detail/?Set=7152-1

    In the past, when sets that have been retired longer were brought back, the backlash was smaller (fewer people owned the sets) such that TLG was able to bring them back with the fanfare of the "Legends" line:
    http://www.brickset.com/brickLists/?4672

    However, again, the sales were tepid. This was admitted by LBR employees, and again, the ownership numbers in the database appear to lend credence to this.

    The backlash I alluded to is a very real consideration for TLG since sales of LEGO benefit from being regarded as a collectible toy. It is a highly prized position, and the road of history is littered with countless corpses of once collectible toys that sacrificed their long-term viability for short-term profit by saturating the market and otherwise upsetting their customer base.

  • @davee123 Excellent point about the Star Wars sets. The remakes are geared for kids basically, just like all the re-releases of the movies, such as the current 3D versions. It will never end. LOL. I'm still waiting for a Darth Vader bust to be made, similar to my avatar.
  • To be honest, I'm getting tired of remakes. I mean how many versions of X-Wings and Tie Fighters do we need? There has to be other Star Wars vehicles to remake. It's as if Lego is getting lazy...LOL
    1. To be honest, after 13 years of making Star Wars Lego, there are not many ships left that they have not done yet, especially from the Original Trilogy.

    2. They will sell way more copies of iconic ships such as the X-Wing or the Millenium Falcon than of some vehicle that you could see for 30 secs in one of the prequels, even if it is the 6th version since 1999.

    I just bought my first LEGO after 20 years this January. And it was an X-Wing. Would some Clone Wars ship tempted me? Never.

  • edited March 2012
    ^ Good points. I was really be facetious to a degree. ;-)

  • edited March 2012
    1x8 blue arch is a discontinued piece, no longer manufactured by lego. Look on BL for the sets they were in, and get a cheap used or partial set (which will also give you other pieces for CC). I was lucky enough to find a partial 8893 with all 4 arches for 23 bucks delivered...keep checking ebay!
    @jpcz - Yes I'm aware that the 1x8 dark blue arch has not appearred in any sets of late, but that doesn't mean they will not reintroduce that part in a future set. The mold is still used in other colors and dark blue has not been retired (i.e. light grey), so there is no reason why they would not produce the part in the future.
  • edited March 2012
    Nobody is arguing about the quality of Cafe Corner...
    Oh... I am. :D

    Cafe Corner is hideous. Probably the ugliest 'proper' modular (it's really a toss up between it and GG). And if it weren't a corner, I would HAPPILY sell it to the OP for well below the going rates.

    But on point... I know CC sells for a ridiculous amount on Amazon and eBay... but that has absolutely no bearing on how well a reissue would sell. Those outrageously priced eBay and Amazon models are moving... what? 50-100 a month? And I realize that there are probably a lot of people that want the set that simply won't pay that much... but how many? Is it enough for TLG to even consider re-issuing this abomination?

    I think a completely re-designed Cafe Corner would fare much better, though I don't particularly care for that solution, either, as I'm firmly in the camp that would rather not have my one modular for the year be something - even a re-design - that's already been done before.
  • I would save up and buy a re-released Cafe Corner. They could spruce up the interior and ask $200 for it.
    You might, but I suspect few others would. There are just too many other sets to be made.

    TLG is a business, their goal is to appeal to as broad a market as possible. Businesses that focus on the very narrow do have a place in this world, huge toy companies are not such a business.

    I think it is forgotten sometimes that The Lego Group is a toy company, that makes, you know, toys for kids... :)
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